tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post3746853295556752147..comments2023-10-17T06:26:31.005-07:00Comments on Evolutionary Middleman: God snores as another Sparrow bites the dustJohn Evohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10868904051881865159noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-29306115574672876792007-12-22T15:57:00.000-08:002007-12-22T15:57:00.000-08:00Emilio's character flaw, however, was merely a hoo...<I>Emilio's character flaw, however, was merely a hook on which Russell could hang her drab literary laundry.</I><BR/><BR/>Ouch...<BR/><BR/>I agree with everything you said about character flaws. Every book's primary character is based in part on some "fatal flaw". It's what makes for an interesting story. <BR/><BR/>I'm not arguing that people shouldn't have flaws, as I said before. I'M John Evohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10868904051881865159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-22547937587819764422007-12-22T15:36:00.000-08:002007-12-22T15:36:00.000-08:00As to the question of flawed characters: Every sin...As to the question of flawed characters: Every single interesting character ever written about has at least one character flaw. Even comic book heroes have to have a flaw, a weakness of some kind -- that's why kryptonite was introduced into the Superman series. <BR/><BR/>Emilio's character flaw, however, was merely a hook on which Russell could hang her drab literary laundry.The Exterminatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14452054124550486048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-33203192038373639512007-12-22T15:26:00.000-08:002007-12-22T15:26:00.000-08:00Lifey:Evo's got it. YOU ARE IN!! I'll add you to t...<B>Lifey</B>:<BR/><BR/>Evo's got it. YOU ARE IN!! I'll add you to the list when I next visit my own blog.The Exterminatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14452054124550486048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-74984652724006693202007-12-22T14:53:00.000-08:002007-12-22T14:53:00.000-08:00@ Lynet -Actually, it was Ridger that "hated" it. ...@ Lynet -<BR/><BR/>Actually, it was Ridger that "hated" it. I was just commenting that based on my reading of Mary Russell's own words that it very much reflected her own viewpoint. She was an atheist in adolescence. Then she supposedly "matured". I think she had that point of view reflected in her characters.<BR/><BR/>@ Lifeguard -<BR/><BR/>Based on my understanding of Ex - YOU ARE IN!!John Evohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10868904051881865159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-84173556895259770852007-12-22T13:30:00.000-08:002007-12-22T13:30:00.000-08:00Actually, John, Mary Malone doesn't show up until ...Actually, John, Mary Malone doesn't show up until the third book, so the movie won't help you much. But while she's a pivotal role, she's still a fairly small character, so I wouldn't advise reading the books just for her in any case.<BR/><BR/>It's funny you hated that line about "I think they call that period of spiritual development 'adolescence'". I took it charitably and assumed that, for Lynethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06357023675142716573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-66034335341767509902007-12-22T10:45:00.000-08:002007-12-22T10:45:00.000-08:00I agree that agonizing or flawed characters make f...I agree that agonizing or flawed characters make for far more interesting reading. <BR/><BR/>While I have never encountered an agonizing atheist who triumphantly deconverts, I think "The Brothers Karamazov" and "The Last Temptation of Christ" draw some very dramatic portraits of characters suffering internal religious struggles (although i never completed the latter).<BR/><BR/>Ex: How do I join Alejandrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08578877429793660591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-48384654462882354572007-12-22T09:31:00.000-08:002007-12-22T09:31:00.000-08:00@ Lynet - I'll go see the movie. Movies only take...@ Lynet - I'll go see the movie. Movies only take up a couple hours of my time. But I DO still have a problem with the supernatural aspects. <BR/><BR/>@ OG - You are probably right. Still, I'm surprised some atheist writer wouldn't see the same thing on the landscape of fiction that you and I see and proceed to write a great book like the one Ex mentions in comment 2. It's waiting I suppose..John Evohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10868904051881865159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-46988860036654686432007-12-22T07:00:00.000-08:002007-12-22T07:00:00.000-08:00Flawed characters are real. I don't know about you...Flawed characters are real. I don't know about you, but I rarely meet any unflawed people... I think the single line in Sparrow that annoyed me the most was the throwaway line by one of the Jesuits in Rome (John, I think, but I don't have the book here so I can't check), about atheism : I think they call that stage 'adolescence'. In other words, it's childish to be an atheist and when you grow upThe Ridger, FCDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01538111197270563075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-12422927832247952282007-12-22T06:24:00.000-08:002007-12-22T06:24:00.000-08:00I've found that most books that don't accept a pre...I've found that most books that don't accept a premise of a god, don't talk about one at all.<BR/><BR/>I guess it's a weakness of mine, but I like flawed characters. Even when a character makes a choice I dislike, at least it seems real.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09429263099197981481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-8133833919553195222007-12-22T01:56:00.000-08:002007-12-22T01:56:00.000-08:00Deciding triumphantly that God is a complete crock...Deciding triumphantly that God is a complete crock? You're right, we don't see that often. Well, not in fiction anyway. I have seen it in a few deconversion stories, though.<BR/><BR/>I guess it's out there, just waiting to be written, really. Mind you, Pullman's <I>His Dark Materials</I> sequence is pretty triumphantly humanist, if you don't mind the way the good side also has a supernatural Lynethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06357023675142716573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-86506744230471163462007-12-21T22:39:00.000-08:002007-12-21T22:39:00.000-08:00Holy crap!Naw...My mind can't be...What were we sa...Holy crap!<BR/><BR/>Naw...<BR/><BR/>My mind can't be...<BR/><BR/>What were we saying?John Evohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10868904051881865159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-86197807157127733152007-12-21T20:11:00.000-08:002007-12-21T20:11:00.000-08:00Well, actually, I thought you were the one who ori...Well, actually, I thought you were the one who originally said it.The Exterminatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14452054124550486048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-66515214248353846222007-12-21T19:57:00.000-08:002007-12-21T19:57:00.000-08:00Yeah... what he said!Were you the one that said th...Yeah... what he said!<BR/><BR/>Were you the one that said that in some other comment? Sounds the same.John Evohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10868904051881865159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-15021830894889676082007-12-21T19:20:00.000-08:002007-12-21T19:20:00.000-08:00“why can’t there be some great atheist literature ...<I>“why can’t there be some great atheist literature that starts and, especially, ends with the premise – the whole idea of God is absurd?”</I><BR/><BR/>Better yet: Why can't there be some great work of literature that features a character agonizing over religion, who decides triumphantly at the happy ending that god is a complete crock?The Exterminatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14452054124550486048noreply@blogger.com