tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post501284530466684872..comments2023-10-17T06:26:31.005-07:00Comments on Evolutionary Middleman: Beyond the grave, Part 3John Evohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10868904051881865159noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-37343111394246982102008-08-07T05:49:00.000-07:002008-08-07T05:49:00.000-07:00I appreciate this commentary, because it has cause...I appreciate this commentary, because it has caused me to revisit many issues to see whether Christianity (and theism less specifically) can be deemed rational, or reasonable. While it may be that few people will be scrolling through to read this string in its entirety, I'd like to offer an essay summing up my position. You can view it here: http://xrl.us/omzr9<BR/>Thanks again.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11308253107498252161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-61861555440554471142008-08-05T21:38:00.000-07:002008-08-05T21:38:00.000-07:00bdan:I'm having a little trouble following the thr...bdan:<BR/><BR/>I'm having a little trouble following the thread, so could you succinctly state, in one or two sentences, what you're trying to prove here?<BR/><BR/>And, just as a side question, do you speak for or represent Chip Crush in any way? I thought we'd already pretty much determined that he was an idiot.The Exterminatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14452054124550486048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-43770420969494301342008-08-05T21:24:00.000-07:002008-08-05T21:24:00.000-07:00"People choose to believe what they want to believ...<I>"People choose to believe what they want to believe every day, despite what's readily known and what they might actually know themselves. Why should atheism be any different? "</I><BR/><BR/>You do know that atheism means a non-acceptance of all current god claims, right? It's not 'hey, there's no god', right? I have to check, because that's a point of confusion. Essentially, atheism looks at PhillyChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03355892225956705948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-73690268203430277442008-08-05T19:07:00.000-07:002008-08-05T19:07:00.000-07:00Sorry I've been away (but maybe you're OK with tha...Sorry I've been away (but maybe you're OK with that!) Quick response to a couple of things:<BR/><BR/>The Exterminator: Classify me however you choose. As for critical thinkers, I think everyone is one on some level. Even my four year old daughter puts things together everyday by using critical analysis. For waht it's worth, I think most of what I've seen here has been solid evidence evidencebdan29https://www.blogger.com/profile/07419970626763753247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-72882055111806910722008-08-02T13:22:00.000-07:002008-08-02T13:22:00.000-07:00From Jesse Bering of The University of Geneva, thi...From Jesse Bering of The University of Geneva, <A HREF="http://www.interdisciplines.org/causality/papers/11" REL="nofollow">this seems to show</A> both the veracity of my intuitions, that it hasn't been properly studied, and that it is an area wide open to cognitive scientists who want to do the research.John Evohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10868904051881865159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-81565184143731724962008-08-02T12:53:00.000-07:002008-08-02T12:53:00.000-07:00"Philly was suggesting that supernatural belief co...<I>"Philly was suggesting that supernatural belief comes from irrational fears of things like faries, angels, gnomes, etc. (not real things)."</I><BR/><BR/>Not quite. Supernatural beliefs can come in response to real things. Death is real, yet people have some wild beliefs in regard to it, from reincarnation to pearly gates. Hurricanes are real, yet some claim they are the expressions of wrath PhillyChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03355892225956705948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-2127347023958976902008-08-02T12:49:00.000-07:002008-08-02T12:49:00.000-07:00Bdan said: And as for that original premise, I'm n...Bdan said: <I>And as for that original premise, I'm not convinced that it's been proven.</I><BR/><BR/>True enough. If you go back to the first post in this series, titled "40,000 men and women everyday", you'll see I concluded with:<BR/><BR/><I>I’m neither suggesting that there are no other reasons that people follow their superstitions or that this small, anecdotal group verifies my point. I’llJohn Evohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10868904051881865159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-71746059593926359912008-08-02T12:26:00.000-07:002008-08-02T12:26:00.000-07:00bdan:You seem to have taken Philly's "critical thi...bdan:<BR/>You seem to have taken Philly's "critical thinkers" and turned it into a pejorative; I can almost hear your smug chuckle as you use the term.<BR/><BR/>So, shall we class you among the uncritical thinkers? Or the critical nonthinkers? Or perhaps just the uncritical, nonthinking supersitition-mongers? <BR/><BR/>Please advise. How would you like to refer in future to the people who use The Exterminatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14452054124550486048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-8468264165140127942008-08-02T12:14:00.000-07:002008-08-02T12:14:00.000-07:00John Evo,I agree that with our bank robbery you sh...John Evo,<BR/><BR/>I agree that with our bank robbery you should examine all the evidence (DNA, video, etc.) - it would be foolish not to. After all, sometimes the critical thinkers have wide variations of perception and it's hard to figure anything out. Then again, when you have several witnesses and all of their stories match, and you can't find any ulterior motives or opposing viewpoints, bdan29https://www.blogger.com/profile/07419970626763753247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-36392637728318000962008-08-01T06:03:00.000-07:002008-08-01T06:03:00.000-07:00And then of course there's fear of Philly...And then of course there's fear of Philly...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-54221072885560183822008-07-31T13:44:00.000-07:002008-07-31T13:44:00.000-07:00You can fear whatever you want. Some fears are hea...You can fear whatever you want. Some fears are healthy, and actually are lacking in this country like:<BR/>• fearing whether you could REALLY afford that mortgage before signing<BR/>• fearing maybe you can't multitask well, especially if some of those tasks include texting and driving<BR/>• fearing whether that politician whose campaign is funded by big corporations like ExxonMobile really can PhillyChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03355892225956705948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-28354587198415416652008-07-31T13:16:00.000-07:002008-07-31T13:16:00.000-07:00I'll tell you what, Bdan...You put together all of...I'll tell you what, Bdan...<BR/><BR/>You put together all of that testimony, then you look at any video from the scene and surrounding area, dust for fingerprints, check any DNA evidence that might have been left in the form of hair or blood, verify the alibis of potential suspects, etc. and you might come to the answer. Maybe not. There might not ever be enough evidence.<BR/><BR/>Or you could John Evohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10868904051881865159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-48689455678891903912008-07-31T13:02:00.000-07:002008-07-31T13:02:00.000-07:00Philly Chief - Since nature and death do exist, is...Philly Chief - Since nature and death do exist, is it OK to fear them? (I don't, but just want to be clear.)<BR/><BR/>Anyway, I have to run - turns out there was a bank robbery across the street and I want to know for certain what happened. One person said there were two robbers, another said three. One man said they each had knives, but another woman said they all had guns. Two ladies said bdan29https://www.blogger.com/profile/07419970626763753247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-38531678189982146422008-07-31T11:03:00.000-07:002008-07-31T11:03:00.000-07:00Atheists are humans, we have hopes and fears like ...Atheists are humans, we have hopes and fears like anyone else, only we (generally) don't have fears stemming from things which there's no reason to believe exist. Gnomes, elves, chuppacabras, big foots (or feet?), ghosts, gods, angels, demons, and many many more fanciful creatures are not worth fearing since there's no reason to think they exist.<BR/><BR/>As to untrustworthiness of the mind and PhillyChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03355892225956705948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-87438424980205492812008-07-31T10:51:00.000-07:002008-07-31T10:51:00.000-07:00John Evo,I came over here from Chip's blog and hav...John Evo,<BR/><BR/>I came over here from Chip's blog and have been perusing the comments. One question I had early on was regarding if there are any "fears" that an atheist might have. However, it seems that Chip may have already asked that question just recently. If Christian/religious believers have some sort of innate fear of nature/death, do atheists not have that fear? Why or why not? bdan29https://www.blogger.com/profile/07419970626763753247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-7264121386714739002008-07-31T05:21:00.000-07:002008-07-31T05:21:00.000-07:00If you need the money, would you bet on yourself n...<I>If you need the money, would you bet on yourself not getting laid, and how will you collect?</I><BR/><BR/>I'm a fair guy, so I won't bet. But I get to collect ten percent on each bet. (That's almost as good as sex...)<BR/><BR/><BR/><I>Refuting Chips' arguments (well other's arguments which Chip is presenting) isn't for just Chip's sake. You know there are thousands of lurkers here at Evo's Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-29846447797167878042008-07-31T00:29:00.000-07:002008-07-31T00:29:00.000-07:00Chip,Thanks for stopping by. Since we're arguing ...Chip,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for stopping by. Since we're arguing epistemology -- that is, we're arguing about foundations of knowledge -- I suspect I can answer a lot of your questions by explaining my single evidentiary criterion.<BR/><BR/>It goes like this. Something is more likely to be true if we have <I>consilient</I> evidence for it. Consilient evidence arises when separate ways of testing Lynethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06357023675142716573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-64104757991916846622008-07-31T00:26:00.000-07:002008-07-31T00:26:00.000-07:00The first time I visit your blog. Frankly speaking...The first time I visit your blog. Frankly speaking, I am kind of lost ! *prash winks*<BR/><BR/>There are many topics here which I never bother to think in my life (ex: theism, faith, supernatural, eternal life etc.)...<BR/><BR/>I shall keep reading...Prashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07035011813347477952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-54535552780184295392008-07-30T14:20:00.000-07:002008-07-30T14:20:00.000-07:00Chief said: You know there are thousands of lurker...Chief said: <I>You know there are thousands of lurkers here at Evo's site</I><BR/><BR/>HUNDREDS of thousands, Philly. Hundreds of thousands.John Evohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10868904051881865159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-69656774770488773872008-07-30T14:14:00.000-07:002008-07-30T14:14:00.000-07:00Sarge says: "I've known the man for forty six year...Sarge says: <I>"I've known the man for forty six years, been married to him for forty of the. I'll never ask him to be dishonest or do anything that would diminish...his...digni...ty...leeeeave. The skeletonnn! ALONNNNE!!!"</I><BR/><BR/>LOL!! That's a fucking great story, Sarge. If there were a god, he'd let you live at least 600 and then not go out like this. So do it your way, bro. Of courseJohn Evohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10868904051881865159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-4146094992767070722008-07-30T13:59:00.000-07:002008-07-30T13:59:00.000-07:00If you need the money, would you bet on yourself n...If you need the money, would you bet on yourself not getting laid, and how will you collect?<BR/><BR/><BR/>Refuting Chips' arguments (well other's arguments which Chip is presenting) isn't for just Chip's sake. You know there are thousands of lurkers here at Evo's site, and we wouldn't want any of them being lead astray by nonsense, would we? Well maybe you would, because you're a bastard, but PhillyChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03355892225956705948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-425492402040072372008-07-30T13:36:00.000-07:002008-07-30T13:36:00.000-07:00Why is it you guys provide all these good reasons ...Why is it you guys provide all these good reasons for not arguing with a putz like Chip Crush, perfectly valid, sane reasons, and then you go ahead and argue with him? <BR/><BR/>Ask him how long it's been since he had his stroke. Now that would make sense, since it's evident he's brain-damaged. "Please teach me this, please teach me that, because I don't want to learn, I just need an excuse to Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-90068192865135444212008-07-30T13:11:00.000-07:002008-07-30T13:11:00.000-07:00"to prove the existence of God (at least to onesel...<I>"to prove the existence of God (at least to oneself), one would merely have to know Him, through His self-revelation to them, and this is what has happened to millions (and dare I say billions) of individuals worldwide."</I><BR/><BR/>That's not proof, for it's indistinguishable from delusion. If you want to offer numbers as either some sort of proof that it's right or proof of the PhillyChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03355892225956705948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-37802085646374592812008-07-30T12:54:00.000-07:002008-07-30T12:54:00.000-07:00Thanks for the tip, I'll watch it.I'm told my atti...Thanks for the tip, I'll watch it.<BR/><BR/>I'm told my attitude is either very bad or very good. From the point of view of the religious, it's bad.<BR/><BR/>I had an appointment with the oncologist yesterday, and some of the other patients in the waiting room wanted to have a Word of Prayer. Told them go ahead, I'd just keep reading my novel. If my wife wanted to join the festivities, it was up Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15599022.post-13224406482798880252008-07-30T12:49:00.000-07:002008-07-30T12:49:00.000-07:00This will have to be my last post for awhile, as I...This will have to be my last post for awhile, as I'm heading on vacation; but I'll check back upon my return, Lord willing, to say hello.<BR/><BR/>@the exterminator,<BR/><BR/>You must be really hard-headed (and hard-hearted) to miss my point, which is that faith is at the core of atheism and theism. And that's something that phillychief understands, so let's talk to him.<BR/><BR/>@ phillychief,<Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11308253107498252161noreply@blogger.com