I uploaded a video on YouTube for the first time. Find out what I outed myself on! On the right side of the video, in the information box, you can find the videos that I was responding to if interested.
Thursday, April 16, 2009
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23 comments:
Very brave, and good points.
Now you're on the road to becoming a Youtube star.
No, I think you need to be funny and original to do that. I can't come up with a new revelation every time I post.
Actually, I probably could, but I think I'd rather work on be funny.
The beard's gone, the hair is shorter, and you're missing a tomato.
I was an atheist back in 1972 too.
Nice job on the video.
OG, were you even ALIVE in '72?
Oh... I get it.
That whole "everybody's born an atheist" line is bullshit. You have to have been exposed to the idea before you can form an opinion on it, so babies aren't atheists. I think you have to be at least capable of talking and not shitting yourself to even begin contemplating the idea.
Good video. As Philly said, you made some good points about the stigma that is still attached to mental illness.
Philly - it may be the case that "everyone is born an atheist" insofar as babies don't have ideas one way or the other about gods until someone starts indoctrinating them. Therefore, they are, presumably, born without god-beliefs. Obviously, they are not informed atheists, they are simply atheists by default. However, since they have no ideas either way about gods, they can be easily led to think one way or another. Moreover, the indoctrination begins very early, pretty much from day one. By the time they're speaking a few words and potty-training, the indoctrination is already well under way. They may be born atheists, but the non-belief is forced out of them very early.
On the other hand, it may be the case that indoctrination begins in the womb. Even when I was pregnant, my gestating kids were exposed to Christian music, prayers, god-talk (babies in the womb start hearing what's going on outside at around 25 weeks), etc. So, it may be the case that some nascent religious ideas were planted in their minds even before birth.
You realize, of course, that I'm just shooting shit here, as all of these ideas are way beyond my knowledge of pre-natal and childhood development. Still, the question of to what degree anyone is "born atheist" is an interesting one.
I still think Philly's comment stands, Chappy. I hear what you are saying (I've said it myself before). But humans, as smart as we are, are still quite primitive. There is a lot of recent evidence of kids having an innate tendency to prescribe magical causation to events from as early as 18 months.
All I'm saying is "god" is an invented idea. I don't see how you're an atheist because you didn't either independently invent it or never were exposed to it.
I define atheism as a rejection of god claims because they're unwarranted. How can you reject what you've never had a chance to reject?
Yeah, kids are really in a whole different class of definition and atheist doesn't apply.
Just like they are neither mathematicians nor are they anti-math. You have to have some kind of affirmative knowledge to be called an atheist.
Philly - to play devil's advocate for a moment, I don't have a problem with your personal definition of atheism - "I define it as a rejection of god claims because they're unwarranted." I think all of us who have commented thus far have arrived at our atheism by thinking hard about the issues connected with god-belief.
The thing is, a lot of people simply define atheism as a lack of god-belief, regardless of whether people have arrived at that position thoughtfully or accidentally. If one accepts that broader definition, then, yes, one can be born an atheist. If one goes with your tighter definition, then atheism as a default position at birth clearly is not possible.
It may be more accurate to say that babies are born agnostic rather than atheist. They really are in a position where they can't know anything about gods one way or the other. Perhaps David Eller's book should have been entitled, Natural Agnosticism. Of course, that line of thinking would have resulted in quite a different book. But, maybe it's the book that he should have written.
Interesting discussion, kids.
I learned a lot from your YouTube, JE. Thanks!
Lorena - I doubt you "learned" much, other than the fact that I'm a pretty wacky atheist! But thanks and feel free to subscribe to me. I plan on doing some more.
John Evo,
I did learn. The stuff about medication and how it works and the people who suffer it is unfamiliar to me. So I do have a lot to learn on the issue.
I also had no idea that there had been a recent murder of an atheist by a mentally ill person.
Lorena -
HERE is the story. I'm not sure if Asia McGowan was an atheist or not. I think he was just obsessed with her.
As far as the anti-depressants, they've really come a long way with them since Prosac hit the market 25 years or so back. The side-effects are pretty minimal for most people though there are dangers, especially for youngsters with depression.
I'm one hundred percent behind coming outs of any kind. Especially when it helps us gain a better understanding of depression. Like you said, it's a powerful illness. Maybe if that was recognized and better understood by the public, Asia MacGowan might still be alive.
Great video :)
Or would it be more accurate to say that we were born freethinkers. We could think freely, until chained by the dogmas of religion.
Thanks for the video. I don't even know the seriousness of my depression because I refuse to see a shrink and prefer to be my own shrink instead. Maybe mine's the milder kind. I think it's the kind that was caused by too much religion. I used to much happier, before religion got a grip on me.
There are many levels of depression and everyone gets it sometimes and might not even be able to accurately identify it. You just need to be careful when handling it on your own. Be VERY aware of it getting worse than usual and have someone you can talk to about it, even if you choose to avoid meds. Meds DEFINITELY aren't for everyone.
Whilst it's true to say that everyone is born a non-theist (not an a-theist, for the reasons Philly gave), there's a fair amount of evidence to suggest that the tendancy to believe is hardwired into the human mind. Even without any kind of religious indoctrination, kids will invent imaginary friends, supernatural beings, magical realities - it's just that some of us grow out of it...
Like the vid, John, although you have more skin than I'd always envisaged from your avatar.
HA! You actually made me laugh with that one, Yunshui. Didn't see it coming.
Nice video John.
I work with mentally ill people myself as I may have mentioned before.
Talking about the various illness can only bring understanding.
I have suffered from debilitating anxiety, silly person that I am I decided that I could handle it on my own.
I eventually quit a well paying job because of it.
PS I subscribed as well
Yes, I saw your subscription on YouTube before I saw this! Thanks a lot. Subscribed to you as well (but you probably already knew that).
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